Recently, as part of our work on enhancing data infrastructure for higher education in prison, we published an interview with Ruth Delaney, director of the Vera Institute of Justice’s Unlocking Potential initiative. In that interview, Delaney provides her expert insights into the Best Interest Determination (BID) process of Postsecondary Education in Prison (PEP) program approval. The Best Interest Determination, or BID, is a comprehensive program review, conducted by the oversight entity (state department of corrections or bureau of prisons), to assess whether a prison education program is operating in the best interest of students. This review must occur within two years of the date the program receives conditional Pell-eligible approval from the Department of Education.

Photo of Macy Pickman.

Macy Pickman

The policies and procedures being established for the evaluation of Pell-eligible Postsecondary Education in Prison Programs may benefit the entire field: they will develop data collection, assessment, and benchmarking practices and procedures that will enable higher education in prison programs to better assess and evaluate the education and services they provide and enable oversight entities, accreditors, and higher education institutions to comparatively evaluate program performance.

To better understand how departments of corrections are approaching oversight and evaluation, and to get a sense of the kinds of documents and procedures being created for that purpose, we spoke to Macy Pickman, education director in the Kansas Department of Corrections, who has taken the time to explain how she has worked with college partners to develop guidelines and procedures for the Best Interest Determination process.

In the conversation below, Pickman shares insights into the development of the Kansas Department of Corrections’ College Semester Report. Pickman and the Kansas DOC have also shared template versions of the College Semester Report and the College Semester Report Data Spreadsheet—where data will be aggregated for evaluation—so that we can make them available to you.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Please introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your position and the work that you do.

My name is Macy Pickman. I am the director of education for Kansas Department of Corrections (KDOC). I have a passion for learning. I have a diverse education background that has expanded into a diverse work experience. I began my education career by receiving a bachelor of science in agricultural education from Kansas State University. For six years I taught science in a Title I high school. This experience emphasized the importance of integrating education holistically rather than compartmentalizing it. Education should support the needs of the whole student. My experience teaching spurred a desire to continue my education. In 2020, I received a master of education in school counseling and in 2021, I received a Master of Science in Education Administration.

I began my career as the education director for KDOC in 2023. I oversee all the education programming operating within the KDOC. In this role, I manage both adult education and post-secondary opportunities. It is my job to ensure that these programs are operating to the standard that has been set by the state of Kansas. I also work with the Kansas Consortium for Correctional Higher Education (KCCHE) to ensure that high quality programs and services are being provided to students.

Collaboration and communication are two skills that I have worked to embody in my professional philosophy. Partnering with other departments within the KDOC creates a web of supports that work to help students reach their goals. Seeing the impact that education has had on my life, I plan to continue to expand education and employment opportunities within the Kansas Department of Corrections.

You’ve created a form to pilot collection, reporting, and evaluation of the data necessary for the Best Interest Determination in the Postsecondary Education in Prison program Pell approval process. Can you explain what the process was for designing that and what stakeholders were involved?

The first step that I did was to add in the reporting component within our statewide MOA (Memorandum of Agreement). I wanted to make sure that every college who signed that document understood that KDOC would be expecting data collection to be a vital component within the college program operation.

I then began to reach out to my fellow education directors around the United States. Each department of corrections is at a different stage in this process, so I really wanted to see what was already being done. I took the information that I gathered from my peers and modified it to work for KDOC.

Once I had a draft, I talked to the KDOC team. I asked them for their honest, critical feedback. I really wanted to look at this document from all angles. Once I felt like I had a document that represented what KDOC wanted education to look like, I then presented this to the Kansas Consortium for Correctional Higher Education for their feedback.

I really value the feedback from KCCHE, they are the ones who will be tracking the data after all. I was able to take feedback from them and create a draft. We repeated this process several more times. I really wanted to ensure that the document aligned with the Best Interest requirements. I didn’t want to wait two years to evaluate programs and then have something come as a surprise.

What were some of the challenges or surprises that you’ve encountered in that process?

One of the biggest challenges that I faced is the variance between each program and facility, it has been a real challenge to create a standard process. Trying to find something that works for everyone was a huge challenge. I really tried to keep my focus on what we are required to report during the Best Interest report. This helped us to stay focused on what we wanted to track and why. I was really surprised at how difficult it has been to collect some of the data components needed for Best Interest. I assumed that programs would just have to run reports to get the data needed. It turns out that is not the case.

You’re already using these tools. Why did you decide to launch the College Semester Report and begin performing programmatic evaluations before Kansas Postsecondary Education in Prison programs reach the formal phase of Best Interest Determination?

In Kansas, most of our programs started operating under the Second Chance Pell experiment. We have had college programs up and running for a few years now. I didn’t want to wait to evaluate our programs. I want to know what is and isn’t working well in our education programs now. I really value strong communication and transparency. I not only want to evaluate the education programs, but also the KDOC policies and operations. If students aren’t being successful, what are the barriers that are potentially limiting success? The goal of this report is to identify areas of strength and areas of growth. Personally, I think it is important to identify and recognize what flaws the programs have. Those flaws give us direction to grow. How can you improve if you don’t know what you need to work on?

What do you recommend to peers at other correctional agencies who are creating their own documents and procedures for the Best Interest Determination?

I am always one to suggest collaboration. Ask those around you about the information already being collected. Identify your wants and needs. Modify and adapt current processes to fit your needs. I would never suggest making an overly complicated process, we all have enough on our plates. Before you roll this out, make sure that you have utilized feedback from those who will collect the data. Work together to create processes with the understanding that these procedures could change as you begin to really learn about the programs you are working with.

What is the value of gathering and evaluating this kind of programmatic data?

To document the success of programs and of individuals. Best Interest is a way to evaluate the program as a whole, allowing us to document those successes. At the end of the day, I am a public employee; I want to make sure that I am being a respectful custodian of the resources that I have been given to utilize and these evaluations will help me to do just that.